Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:53 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:22 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:25 pm
Posts: 7207
Location: United States
Awesome.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:01 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 am
Posts: 2356
Location: United States
JIm

Here is an idea for you. I subscribe to fine woodworking magazine and every issue they have a section dedicated to finishing. Since this is a sore spot for woodworkers in general why not have a section each issue dedicated to a specific type of finish and its application? You could have one for lacquer, one for urethane, one for shellac, one for oil etc. For example, I just finished testing two different types of shellac. I had three methods of application: french polish, spray or brush for each product. I then buffed some samples to a high gloss on a buffng wheel, other samples I rubbed out to a high gloss by hand and some samples I rubbed down to a satin finish. I think something like this would be of particluar interest in the magazine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:50 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 320
Location: United States
First name: Scott
Last Name: Thompson
I would like to see more articles on professional or business aspects of being a luthier. Small or independent business advice - business entities, health care, taxes, insurance, liability, accounting, customer care, etc. This could be a regular section of the magazine rather than a specialty issue. There is as much to learn in this realm as there is in the actual building and it is an area I think many people would benefit from.

_________________
Scott Thompson
Port Townsend,WA

"In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune
But this is reality so give me some room"
-Billy Bragg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:02 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 4217
Location: Buffalo, NY
First name: Robert
Last Name: Cefalu
City: Buffalo
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 14217
Country: US
Robbie I did that on a 5" x 8" sample piece of quilted sapele using Target Coatings waterborne shellac. I just kept wiping on coats with a paper towel. Maybe 6-8 coats a day over two days untill the pores were filled. I wet sanded up to 1500 then buffed out. It looks awesome. Just a little experiment.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:25 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 am
Posts: 2356
Location: United States
Jim,

I could write an article on my experience and the results. I have also done similar tests comparing KTM9 and catalyzed urethane. (I use cat urethane instead of lacquer on my guitars)
I also did some tests with lacquer and buffing by hand. My goal is to find a finish that the hobby luthier could do without a large investment in materials or equipment. The lacquer experiment was rubbed to a high gloss by hand and is probably one of the best high gloss finishes I have ever done.
I just think that building the guitar is half of the work, then you have to finish it. Most guys have no idea were to even start when it comes to finishing their guitar. A finishing section in the magazine would help guys out greatly in this area. each issue could highlight a different type of finish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 11:21 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
I wholeheartedly agree with Robbie on the finishing issue; I've only made about 10 guitars (acoustic and electric combined), and I've already tried about 5 different finishes. So, yeah, some professional finishing advice would be very much appreciated.

I'd volunteer to write something, but I don't really feel I've got the experience or knowledge to do so quite yet. Gimme a decade or two.Mattia Valente38479.3486805556


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:48 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:50 pm
Posts: 4662
Location: Napa, CA
Jim...If you were to check out the "Jigs, Tools & Techniques" section on the main page, you'd find a whole lot of creative and articulate guys who already have the makings of some articles.

Would contacting them be a good start?

Also, Go Robbie!! I'd love to see an article on your finishing trials.

...And Mattia...don't underestimate the work you've done...especially your objective approach to problem-solving...not to mention how articulate you are. Your efforts would certainly add to the international flavor and might be particularly helpful for other European folks just starting out.

Here's another idea...

Have a regular section called, "Forum Hopper". Survey OLF, MIMF, 13th Fret, et.al. and each edition post the best thread of an idea or technique that was discussed.

Just a few thoughts...I'm sure there are others out there.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:04 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:12 pm
Posts: 688
Location: United States
JJ,
I like your thoughts and ideas and I am in total agreement with you. I'm not currently a member of ASIA, but with all of these very thoughtful ideas, I'm actually thinking that Guitar Maker magazine will be better than the GAL. I will be signing up soon for sure!
Tracy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:21 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

I think that supporting both ASIA and GAL (if you can financially swing it) are good things to do. Both groups support lutherie and benefit all of us.


_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:47 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
Hmm...I'll do a bit of brainstorming on the 'what could I contribute?' sort of front. I like the idea of contributing in some way other than financially (I'll be joining ASIA Real Soon Now, ie, as soon as my credit card recovers from that US trip I just got back from.) Writing's fun, so I'll see if I can get any slightly more concrete ideas down on paper.

The 'forum hopper' thing sounds interesting, but you'd have to make doubley sure that both the forum runner and the involved parties are OK with publication. Whatever we write here is copyrighted to the author, IIRC, and I know that Deb in particular is very, very serious about dealing with that sort of thing. Then there's that slightly unfortunate episode with Mario, an article he wrote, and a near-verbatim publication of said texts (and pictures?), uncredited and without prior authorization. Don't know the details, but it is something that needs taking into account. Mattia Valente38479.6597685185


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:50 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

Mattia, are you spraying your finishes? (I seem to remember your repeated comments about having limited space.)

If not, perhaps you could do something on the finishes you are getting in confined spaces. I think there would be a lot of interest in this (brushes?, toxicity?, buffing? Lots of images.... Just a thought..

Also, I would be interested in seeing someone's approach to a varnish finish.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:58 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:12 pm
Posts: 688
Location: United States
Brock, you are right, we should support both GAL and ASIA if you can swing it. I'm already a member of GAL, and was going to sign up for ASIA, but about 2 months ago, their was a lot of bad publicity which caused me to hold off until the dust settled. It looks like it has, so I'll be signing up for sure!
Tracy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 7:16 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
Brock, I am actually spraying all my non-oil finishes. I've got highly limited space, but I've always been able to either spray outside with a seperate room for drying (used to save the spraying until I could go home to visit my parents) or, as is the case now, I've got a little dead-end hallway on the 4th floor I can block at one end, with a window I can shoot out of at the other. I can generally also easily set up a draft so everything's blowing OUT, not in. If I didn't, I'd probably be learning to french polish, stat. It's also the big reason I'm NOT using Nitro; waterbased stuff, though not non-toxic, doesn't have highly toxic solvents with the tendency to diffuse throughout the building. HVLP also helps by keeping overspray way, way down compared to traditional guns. Still always have to wear a respirator, though.

I could do a more general qausi 'human interest' kind of story on, well, my own situation. Here's the situation, you tell me if it'd make a vaguely interesting piece:

Basically, I live in a tiny (maybe 15 square meters, room about 16ft to a side) student room, with copious outdoor space, and adequate hallway/spraybooth/jig+form storage space outside the room itself. And I also build guitars. And I've got a ton of other equipment around, and the hall's filling with boards of lumber. Said room houses, all neatly stickered, my 35-odd sets of b/s wood (half below the TV, half above) and about as many tops, along with quite some bracewood. If I'm (dry) sanding, I do it outside, because I do not want fine dust in my living quarters. I'm all to aware of the health risks involved (pesky med text books). Shavings, chips, etc can be dealt with, because while they're messy, they're too big to inhale. My desk is my go-bar deck, and my workbench is a workmate which folds away, or hops out the window on to the roof (outdoor space, big) where necessary.

That's not to say I'm very neat and highly organized (oh, how I wish I were!), but there's enough order to the chaos for me to get around, to find what I need, and do what needs doing. I've built 7 guitars here over the past 6 years, most electric, while going to med school (and then taking a year and a half off, mostly spent making 4 of those 7 guitars, including a pair of acoustics). I've got a ridiculous collection of (portable) power tools, a modest selection of hand tools, probably a few too many jigs, forms and fixtures for the space I have available, but above all, I've got a passion for building guitars. A step beyond a hobby, but just shy of obsession If your desire to build is strong enough, and you can finance the materials (housing in Amsterdam is utterly, utterly disastrous), and your SO will put up with it, there's pretty much always a way to get instruments built.

Still, I'm blaming Melvyn Hiscock and the folks at the MIMF.com every time someone asks me if I'm crazy. I didn't have a choice in the matter!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 7:52 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:53 am
Posts: 320
Location: United States
First name: Scott
Last Name: Thompson
[QUOTE=tl507362] Brock, you are right, we should support both GAL and ASIA if you can swing it. I'm already a member of GAL, and was going to sign up for ASIA, but about 2 months ago, their was a lot of bad publicity which caused me to hold off until the dust settled. It looks like it has, so I'll be signing up for sure!
Tracy[/QUOTE]

I think that bad publicity was the gadfly that ASIA needed to get it's mebers more involved. I see ASIA as the future of Luthier organizations at least in the U.S. It owned and ran by its members. I have serious doubts about the future of GAL after its aging staff retires.

_________________
Scott Thompson
Port Townsend,WA

"In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune
But this is reality so give me some room"
-Billy Bragg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:05 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

I think you are right Scott. ASIA is what *** we *** make it. Whatever bad press there is about the past is exactly that. "The Past." We can simply decide to make a new future from this point forward.

In addition to simply providing articles and content, I think there is a big opportunity to lend your expertise in other (non-lutherie) areas.

Many of us have "day jobs" where we do all kinds of functions professionally that would benefit ASIA. If you are in sales, perhaps you could help put deals together for advertising and make relationships together. If you are a project manager there are tons of things you could do (a very long list). If you are an engineer and know your way around a CAD system I think ASIA could use help in producing new products for sale, if you are a videographer you could go to Symposium and make videos of the sessions that could be sold via ASIA directly or one of the big lutherie houses... In short, there are more "good ideas" than resources to implement them.

I think grabbing the bull by the horns and volunteering your ideas and talent is a more valuable way to "participate" than sending in your $55... (not that you SHOULDN'T send the money... but you get my point.)

In short, I think if we all get behind this organization it will be fantastic, if we don't it won't.

This is a small community and a exceptionally cool microcosim... I think it is really cool that by taking a trip to Symposium that the newbies and the grand masters of the graft can rub elbows, share ideas, and drink a few beers (or whatever your liquid of choice is).....

Tell me any industry where you can do that?

Big changes are coming for ASIA, and it will probably take some time to fully implement them... but I talk to Bill Moll frequently, and the ground is shaking with lots of new ideas and enthusiasm. I have volunteered for about as much as they want to heap on my plate.



_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:08 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 am
Posts: 2356
Location: United States
Mattia,

You remind me of myself. I built my first seven in a studio apartment in Sao Paulo Brasil that was even smalelr than your apartment is. I had tools, jigs, stashes of wood etc all in that confined space. Luckily I am still married!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:27 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
Glad to hear I'm not the only insane..er, I mean, passionate builder 'round here! Those guitars gotta get built, after all...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:27 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Brock is correct - there are always more things to be done, than warm bodies to do them and, as the next few months roll out, there are going to be even more tasks and jobs for someone to take on. So, your ideas and suggestions are great, and we welcome them from members and non-members alike but, DO something too - join, if you haven't yet - get on a committee or write an article. Just a few hours of an individual's time, multiplied by tens, or even hundreds, of individuals, makes for a strong association.

I'm not sure I'm totally behind the "forum jumping" idea - for two reasons. First, the copywrite issues that were mentioned before, and second, because I believe it's best for all concerned that each venue has it's own, at least somewhat, exclusive content. If all the forums and magazines contained the same stuff it would be redundant.

I'm not intimately familiar with Lance's policies but, if it's OK, either Brock or I can post the last, "future of ASIA" mail that was sent out to members. At least that would give everyone here a pretty good idea of where we're headed with this thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:41 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 50
Jim,

     Does everyone know your qualifications and experience level? I think these guys should know that, whether they're volunteering for a committee, or submitting an article, they'll be dealing with a highly experienced writer and editor.

     


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 11:55 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

Here is the mail Bill was referring to above. This recently went out to all current and past members of ASIA who have valid email addresses on file.

****

As you may already know, the board has made a renewed commitment in several areas, one of which is to better communicate with the membership. This "newsletter", whether it becomes monthly, bi-monthly, or simply comes out whenever we have something to say, is one of the vehicles we'll be using, in addition to Guitarmaker Magazine. We hope you'll take a bit of time to read these, and to respond whenever the impulse strikes. Of course, you may also opt out of receiving them at any time; just let us know that you're not interested.

This first "issue" is going out to current members of course, but we're also copying past members who have not renewed - some, for many years. It's our sincere hope that those of you who have been gone for a while will see and appreciate what we're trying to do, and will rejoin us in an effort to achieve the success we all want for ASIA. From now on however, these little meanderings will be sent to current members only.

You've all heard about new plans and new commitments in the past but, right now - even as I type this, we're in the process of implementing some new management strategies that we feel will make very effective differences, and are geared toward the double edged goal of de-centralizing the operational structure of the organization, while involving the membership to a much greater degree. This, we believe, better follows the association's original mandate to be "member run", while allowing a greater depth and scope of activity and value for all members.

First, because a few folks have asked, the organization is financially healthy, not particularly "rich", but in good shape. From what I can tell, and with the exception of a couple of shaky years where member donations saved the day, ASIA's past difficulties have rarely been as much a financial issue as one of "too much work to do, and not enough workers" so, a large part of our new strategy is to form volunteer committees for work in areas where sheer manpower has always been a major difficulty - Simply put, if more of us take an active part in the process, we can accomplish a lot without any single member having to take on more than they can handle. In fact, we can delve into a few areas we've never jumped into before. The following committees seem intelligent for starters however, we're certainly not limited to them, and members may have others to suggest as well.

An Editorial committee will be needed, for solicitation and collection of editorial materials, both print and web based. This has begun already, in conjunction with the web site's complete re-design, but will require a strong staff to get the magazine on schedule and keep it that way. This is the first order of business and, with your help, this committee should be fully staffed by the time the new site is ready to replace the current one and the next issue of Guitarmaker goes to the printer. Of course, a strong publication can be a good revenue generator so...

An advertising committee will be formed to secure ads for both print and web based venues. If we can generate more income for the association, we can spend it on the membership by way of more benefits and programs like...

An education committee, to be involved in producing tutorials, seminars, and continuing education opportunities for members, from newcomers to the more advanced. This could be really cool - lots of ideas to pursue here.

A marketing committee to both, market ASIA to the community at large, and to explore marketing and advertising related opportunities for members, as well as consulting and advising individual members in their own marketing needs.

A political action committee, to make ASIA's agenda for small business, and the arts, known to policy makers at local, regional, and national levels. This includes making our position clear on taxation issues, group health insurance regulations, and import/export policies to name a few. Sure, we're a relatively "small" group but, together, we have a voice that ought to be heard.

Does it all sound like "pie in the sky"? It's not. Within our current membership we have writers, editors, and publishers; we have teachers and educators, managers and CEO's - attorneys, judges, and politicians. Some are active, some are retired but, all are knowledgeable and experienced in these areas. All we need is a volunteer effort to tap that resource of experience and expertise, and we can take the organization to levels of professionalism and service many haven't even imagined. It's pretty simple really. But, it'll take effort.

Symposium is just around the corner, (if you plan to attend but haven't registered yet, please do so soon. You won't want to miss this one), and I hope to personally meet many of you whom I don't already know. If you have an area of interest and experience, and you would like to volunteer for a committee, or suggest one we haven't thought of, we can sure use your help. Please feel free to get my attention at Symposium or, if you're not attending, contact me via e-mail.

If you are a current member, we thank you for your continued support. If you're not, we hope you'll come back and help us grow ASIA into the organization it has the capacity to become. Member in good standing, or member and volunteer, however you choose to do it, please get involved. I firmly believe the craft will be better for it.

Thanks so much,
Bill Moll.


If you would like to renew your membership please go to this link:
http://www.guitarmaker.org/Pages/pay.html

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com